How Can I Introduce Foundational Truth About the Five Fold Gifting to My Church?
How can we know anything about anything
To try to explain truth to him who loves it not is but to give him more plentiful material for misinterpretation. George Macdonald
Do we have to make a choice between science and the Bible?
NO!
That is NOT where the problem is, but that is what everyone seems to want to talk about.
Take science as an example.
How can we know anything about the created material world around us?
How can we know anything from what we can see using natural sciences?
We all see the same things in the material world,
but we don't come to the same answers.
Why is that?
How can we know anything about the Bible and what it teaches?
Every person believes different things about the Bible and how it should be read.
Why is that?
Same scientific facts. Different answers.
Same Bible. Different answers.
Why is that?
The true question is this: How do we come to our answers that we get
from what we can see through science
or what we can read in the Bible?
How do we think about what we see using science or what we read in the Bible?
How do we analyze what we have seen and read?
How do we interpret what we have seen and read?
We use logic, but logic always has a foundation. Jesus talked about building on the Rock.
That Rock is Jesus Christ. He is the true foundation.
There are also the false foundations of the ungodly.
An example might help.
Question: Why do you believe in evolution?
Answer: Because my science teacher told me that evolution is scientific fact.
Question: Why do you believe your science teacher?
Answer: because he agrees with the textbook he assigned us to read.
Now, we have asked, "Why?" twice.
If we continued to ask, "Why?" we would come down to the foundation of this person's thoughts.
When we get down to the foundations, there are no more questions that can be answered.
So where to the foundations come from?
There are three possibilities.
- things that we make up, pulled from the air
- demonic lies
- divine revelation
Question: Why do you believe in creation?
Answer: Because God revealed this to me. He spoke to me through the Bible and gave me His faith
so that I could believe Him.
See how quickly we got to the foundation.
This is a belief that has a foundation that is solid and that cannot be moved.
In reality, the things that we make up, that are pulled from the air,
are actually from demons and all the lies of demons spring from the prince of demons, Satan.
So these are one and the same.
Divine revelation comes from the Almighty, Creator, God, Jesus Christ.
So there are only two choices, but how do we know there are only two choices?
Because God has revealed this truth to us.
The question then is how do we tell the difference between the revelation that comes from God
and the lies of Satan?
The answer is that everyone who sincerely wants to do the will of God will know.
Jesus said, "If you really want to obey God, you will know if what I teach comes from God or from me"
The rejection of the revelation that comes from God is not an intellectual problem.
It is a moral problem.
Jesus said, "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and it shall be opened to you:
For everyone who asks receives; and he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks it shall be opened."
*
Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children,
how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to those who ask him?
Matthew 7:7-11 *
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
You can set the truth before someone, but you can't make anyone believe
those things that they don't want to submit to.
They have to want to obey God.
How frequently it is brought to our attention that nothing good can be done if the will is wrong! Reason alone fails to justify itself. Richard M. Weaver
Jesus said, "You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free" (John 8:32)
"If we are not prepared to buy the truth at the cost of our own humbling we shall not receive it"
Lies appear to have no price upon them.
They seem cheap and they abound everywhere.
But for the truth there is always an obvious price to pay.
"[God] has set a day when He will judge all the world's people with fairness.
And He has chosen the man Jesus to do the judging for Him.
God has given proof of this to all of us by raising Jesus from death" (Acts 17:31).
"There is a judge for the one who rejects Me [Jesus] and does not accept My words;
that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day" (John 12:48)
That also stands for every person who speaks the utterances of Jesus.
When we hear them, we hear Jesus Christ, and we either accept or reject.
Every person who follows Jesus Christ is commanded to only speak His utterances and not their own.
"When we love others, we know that we belong to the truth, and we feel at ease in the presence of God" (1 John 3:19)
Ravi Zacharias did two open forums in a university.
On the second night, one man told him that he had brought two Atheists in the night before
who said that the arguments presented were so strong that they could not contend with them,
but they were going to remain Atheists because that is what they prefer to be true.
In another case of just listening to an unbeliever and drawing out his reasoning,
the unbeliever finally came to his foundations.
They turned out to be assumptions that were pulled from the air.
When asked why he believed his basic assumption,
the unbeliever looked startled and blurted out,
"I guess I'm making the whole thing up."
It was quite a revelation to him since he hadn't even known that he had any assumptions.
However, he decided to remain an Atheist because he didn't want God to rule over him.
Question:
I have been a member of a denominational church for about 19 years. How can I introduce foundational truth about the Five Fold Gifting to the house and still be submitted to my Pastor? I am sold out for God and I do not want Him to say to that I did not do as he has commanded me to do. Now I know that my commission is great. I am looking for an answer outside the church that i attend. Can you guild me over this mountain? My email is...
(SeekFind.net has edited out the specific information and email from this question, leaving the more universal aspects of the question to which other Christians may relate.)
Answer:
If I understand your question, you are exactly where I was about 40 years ago. My wife and I were attending a Bible-believing denominational church as well. They believed the Bible, except for certain parts. The Pastor taught about the Holy Spirit. He just read what the Bible says. He didn't really mean it, but he read it as it is written. I left that service wondering, "Wouldn't that be wonderful to have the Spirit of God flowing through me in that way!" About half-way through the week, I was riding in my car thinking about this and wanting it when the Holy Spirit filled me. He came in and my life changed. In fact, I was both inside and outside the car at once it seemed. Such a love for everyone and every thing filled my heart! It was amazing and a bit hard to describe. The joy was overflowing. The peace was deep. The glory was beyond comprehension. In the weeks that followed, a strange thing happened to the Bible. I had committed previously to read a chapter a day, which was very boring. Now that changed completely. The Bible became relevant to every part of my life. God began to speak to me through the Bible. I would break out in goose bumps and weep and laugh (I still do). God spoke to me through the Bible, then confirmed it in nature (yes, He speaks through nature), then confirmed it again in the mouth of a Christian. The reality of the apostle and prophet became real to me. I saw the need for prophecy and tongues and a Spirit-led church service where every person ministers and has a part. I felt so constrained by the rituals. In the service, the words of the liturgy were wonderful, yet no one was excited about them. They sang and spoke as dead persons. I was ready to jump out of my skin with the power of God on me in this way. I sensed that the order of the Church was out of kilter and centered on competition, money, power, and prestige. It seemed that God still desires to work miracles and operate the gifts of the Spirit. Of course, I went to my Pastor. He became angry. He told me that those things were for what he called, "the apostolic age." He quoted a part of 1 Corinthians 13 out of context, claiming that it meant that tongues and prophecy had ceased. But it said, "When that which is perfect is come, that which is in part will cease." I knew that we had not come to that which is perfect. I didn't know that this literally means, "When that which is complete has come, then that which is in part will cease." The parts cease to exist as parts when they become part of the complete Body of Christ, completely joined to the Head, Jesus Christ." Something in my spirit told me that this Pastor was not right. I went to another Pastor of that denomination and another, but I got no satisfying answer. I looked here and there and everywhere, finding some bazaar teachings in the process.
Across the street from me lived a humble truck driver. He was on his porch reading a yellow newspaper of some sort. I walked over and asked him what he was reading. He said that it was a paper of the unfolding revelation of God. I asked if I could read it. From that time on, this publication called The Sharon Star became one of the ways that God would speak to me. I would see it in the Bible or in Nature, and The Sharon Star would confirm it to me. It was right on all the time. Finally, I asked my neighbor where he went to church. He told me that he attended in a town about two hours away. I wanted to go. One week, he took my wife and I to church with him. It was a long ride, but when I got there, I knew that I was home.
My wife and I attended that church for about two decades. During that time, I learned about the orders and precepts of the Bible concerning Christians and the Church. I found out why the Holy Spirit had made me so uncomfortable in the denominational system. I wanted to go back for my denominational brothers and sisters, but I was unable to influence them in any way. That was very sad. I'm glad for what they do have. They are all born again and have some measure of maturity in Christ, but they are stuck there. Eventually, my wife and I were given spiritual gifts by the laying on of hands of the presbytery and prophecy. My wife was still skeptical and thought that they had wired the chair to give her shocks as the brethren were praying. Not everyone feels the power of God, but it is often true that the flesh reacts to the Anointing of the Holy Spirit in this way, so that there is a wonderful feeling. My wife and I could feel it that day and frequently since that day. We still travel. Another local church was established closer to home, but the families who attend are quite separated by distance, so we all travel to a central point to meet. It is well worth it.
During the early days of this present move of God, the prophecy was given: "Come out, come out of her my people that you be not partakers of her sin." There is a Babylon of voices and divisions out there. Some are more vile than others. Some churches have just come into the flow of the Anointing of God. Pastors have laid down their salaries having no guarantee of so much as the unpaid office of deacon or elder in the local assembly. One Pastor said, "Well, I know how to mow grass. I'll start a grass mowing service." Most Pastors have become indignant at the very suggestion. Some have become very angry. Not everyone is called this way. It is for those who are called and chosen and also who will be found faithful. Each person must walk in the light that God has shown him or her. For some, we have found, they just can't see it. No one can see it unless God reveals it.
In the vision of Ezekiel, God showed him the house, which is the temple of God, which is actually the Church in order. God told Ezekiel that they had set their thresholds beside God's thresholds and their pillars beside God's pillars. God opens many doors to the Church, but there are many who place their own doors beside God's doors and claim that they are serving God by so doing. In the same way, God sets pillars in the Church, men of God to uphold and give support in the Church. There are those who send themselves or allow men to send them. These are false pillars. God said to Ezekiel that these are abominations. God told Ezekiel to show the house to the house. That is, show the true pattern of the Church to the Church. And God said that some will be ashamed and if they are ashamed, then show them all the aspects of the house. By implication, if they are not ashamed, then just let them continue as they are. They are not ready to receive that level of light. Perhaps sometime down the road, God will open the door to them again and they may not be so bound up that they cannot come in.
There is a lot on this site that has been revealed through the apostles concerning the pattern of the Church. You may have to dig for it a bit, but there is a lot here. Also, if you use the form further down on this page we can provide other web sites and resources for your growth.
It may be that you will be successful in helping your local church. Unless God opens their eyes, you will not be able to help them. It is the Holy Spirit Who reveals. No man can do it. All you can do is witness to the Truth, just as with the unsaved. Even Paul said, "If any choose to be ignorant, let them be ignorant." That wasn't a slam; it's just how it is. You can only do so much. Sometimes, this will break your heart, especially when it involves family or close friends. Some people in this situation have started a home church and called for those traveling elders who have been set to find out how to do this. You can contact SeekFind.net using the form down this page. It is possible that there may already be a church within driving distance of where you live.
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The Church, What Is It and What Is Its Purpose
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Misconceptions About the Church (Go)
Fulfillment: Understanding What It Is To Be a Christian and Understanding Christianity (Go)
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Ephesians 4:15-16, Body Ministry By That Which Every Joint Supplies (Go)
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Christian Witness
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Luke 13:24 The Strait (constricted) Gate (Go)
Author/Compiler
Last updated: Oct, 2011
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There is so much more for you.
This is what you have been missing.
Don't let anyone deceptively keep you from fulfilling your destiny and God's purpose for your life.
God has established the pattern of Scripture, for life and for the Church.
You can feel free to use the Contact Form further down on this page to ask any question regarding this pattern of Scripture.
The Church, the Body of Christ, and discernment of this Body, is the method that God is using to finish the work in His Body.
The Body of Christ, God's Temple, is built up by that which every joint supplies, building each other up in love,
and the Temple must be built according to the pattern of Scripture.
We believe the Holy Scriptures teach:
- The 5 apostolic ministries (Ephesians 4:11)
- The nine gifts of the Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:8-10)
- Local congregations overseen by elders and deacons (Titus 1:5)
- Every member having and being a ministry in the Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:11)
- Being led by the Spirit of God (Romans 8:14)
- The gathering together of the Body of Christ (Genesis 49:10, John 17:21)
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Meaning
