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Explain the Difference Between Atheistic Thinking and Your Thinking

 

The points on this page may shake the faith of the Atheist in the precepts of Atheism, but the most important thing is that you share the Good News (Gospel). This is simple. All these other things may help, but it is the proclamation of the Gospel that transforms minds. See Give Them the Gospel.

There are lots of options here.  Don't be too surprised at how thick-headed ungodly people are.  The Secular-Humanist universities (all public and most private universities) teach Naturalism as fact.  These poor students are taught an absolutely insane idea and group agreement causes them to accept the foolishness.

I praise God that He has made Himself obvious through His creation, and that He daily speaks to His people and helps them in real, ongoing experience. I praise Him that He has made it obvious that the ungodly are fools who filter out real evidence while following ridiculous, untestable sswaafts (like evolution), arbitrary assumptions (like Naturalism), insane rationalizations, and logical fallacies.

I thank the Lord that He has made Himself obvious to everyone through the things He has created and that His sheep hear His Voice and that He answers prayer. I praise Him that He has created things in such a way that the ungodly, including the evolutionists, look foolish because they believe sswaafts based on arbitrary, illogical assumptions that are based on insane rationalizations and logical fallacies. There is no sense in debating.  Perhaps some of those who have hardened their hearts against God may realize that they are intellectually, morally, and spiritually bankrupt and seek Jesus and find Him.

I thank Jesus that everyone who truly seeks Him in humility, repentance, and respect, does find Him-that He leads them and answers their prayers.  I'm grateful that He has made Himself so obvious as creator that many ungodly people with billions in government money are stuck with telling sswaafts based on arbitrary, illogical assumptions like naturalism, Atheism/materialism, and uniformitarianism. And I thank Him that these assumptions must rest on lies, insane rationalizations and logical fallacies. God makes debate silly. He proclaims Himself. Some may turn and avoid the judgment. Some just dig a deeper hole for themselves.

I'm so thankful to Jesus that He Created everything in such a way that He is obvious and that all the sswaafts of ungodly people must be based on arbitrary, illogical assumptions like naturalism, Atheism/materialism, and uniformitarianism, and that those arbitrary assumptions are, in turn, based on lies, insane rationalizations and logical fallacies. God makes debate a waste of time. Perhaps some of those who have hardened their hearts against God may realize that they are intellectually, morally, and spiritually bankrupt and seek Jesus and find Him.

You could just keep answering with variations of this theme. Once someone's heart is so hardened against God that they want to debate His existence, that person will go to the most ridiculous ends to try to keep the debate going. To allow them to lead you around and structure the debate is silly because they won't even admit to the facts. But the fact is that they are dependent on sswaafts (scientific sounding wild and amazing fairy tales--let them look that one up on the web), and those sswaafts always depend on assumptions--more than the three that are mentioned. And assumptions, no matter how carefully rationalized, are always arbitrary. To be arbitrary is necessarily to be irrational. To be irrational is to be insane.

Stories that try to conform observations to assumptions (like Naturalism, Atheism/Materialism, Uniformitarianism, and Evolutionism) are still just sswaafts. Everyone rationalizes (makes the irrational sound rational) their assumptions, and some formalize their rationalizations, but no matter how carefully assumptions are rationalized, they are still arbitrary. To be arbitrary is not sound reasoning. That's the difference between assumptions and revelation. Jesus is real. Perhaps the Holy Spirit may bring this conversation to your remembrance in the future. You may realize just how weak your rationalizations, sswaafts, and assumptions are. My advice is that you listen to Him when He speaks to you.

God doesn’t use fables or arguments based on arbitrary assumptions. Debate is a foolish waste of time. God just proclaims Himself through nature, Scripture, visions, conscience, and many other means.  Christ is reality, the real God Who is holding everything together according to the orders and patterns that we plainly see.

What a tragedy it will be on the day when the ungodly stand before the God they always new existed and they have to explain why they argued against His existence. This is amazing since their arguments are all just sswaafts based on arbitrary, illogical assumptions like naturalism, Atheism/materialism, and uniformitarianism, and these assumptions must rest on lies, insane rationalizations and logical fallacies. To debate against what they know to be true using irrational reasoning is so silly.

You know, when you start with Atheistic assumptions, you are going to end up with Atheistic answers. You could skip the expensive hocus pocus and just say, No God, God does nothing, No flood, and save lots of effort. With Christ, the beginning and end is Christ. You have a strong opinion based on assumptions. Those who follow Christ are following a Living Person Who reveals Himself and His creation.

"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it." ~ George Bernard Shaw People who say that Jesus Christ doesn’t reveal Himself and His will to His people should not interrupt those who are learning to hear His Voice and learning to respond to His Voice.  You see, you are being dogmatic about some stories based on arbitrary assumptions while Christ-followers have actual ongoing experience with Christ.

You assume Naturalism and then use it to filter out contrary evidence. That is circular reasoning. As you have said, the starting point of your logic is assumption: naturalism (God doesn't speak or act), materialism (God doesn't exist), and uniformitarianism (there was no 6-day creation or catastrophic worldwide flood). Then you use those assumptions to prove that God doesn't speak or do anything else, God doesn't exist, and there was no 6-day creation or worldwide flood. The Holy Spirit may stir up your mind to understand that this is circular reasoning. And you may open your mind to Him as He speaks to you.

Revelation doesn't fit into your paradigm (fake reality), so you must explain it away. Your paradigm is more real to you than reality itself. However, followers of Christ are simply people who are allowing Christ to reveal Himself and His creation and to transfigure them so that their paradigms gradually fade and are replaced by real reality. Again, you assume what you are trying to prove. But, the Holy Spirit is the One who will speak to you. When you hear His Voice, He may just remind you that your assumptions, stories, and rationalizations are not real. Don't harden your innermost mind against Him when He speaks.

To assume anything and then actually believe it is a form of hallucination. When the assumption becomes permanently etched into your thinking in the form of a paradigm, this is bondage. The bondage in the universities is sad to watch. Christ can set you free. Yes, it's a walk from glory to glory, but it is a walk out of darkness into light. Everyone has a paradigm. Christ is the only way to be set free from the bondage of a paradigm. Won't you invite Him to come to you and be your Lord?

You say that Naturalism is necessary for the predictive power of science. How would a switch from Naturalism (no God and God does nothing) to believing that God created and enforces the laws of nature affect the predictive power of science? And  Assumptions are not real. They are assumptions and so they are arbitrary.  To be arbitrary is to be irrational. You are adding something outside of reality to try to see reality.

I still have trouble with believing your assumptions no matter how carefully you may have rationalized them. They conflict with my daily experience. Jesus Christ is a Person, not an argument. The comparision here is between irrational assumption and actual ongoing experience with the Living God.  You have no idea about what it is to be in Christ. For those things that you have no idea about, it is good to keep an open mind.

I could not live by assumptions or things I could not measure or prove. Reality is in the real Christ. When you consider the weakness of building sswaafts on assumptions, the Holy Spirit may speak gently to you and nudge you to reconsider. Since you know nothing about the spiritual realm, it might be a good idea to keep an open mind. I can tell you that God is good and He is faithful. He will speak to you about these things long after we are done talking. Don't harden your heart.

I don't believe your assumptions, stories or rationalizations. They don't square with what I know of science or with what God plainly says. You are likely to be thinking about the weakness of building on assumptions, stories and rationalizations. It is the Spirit of God Who is calling you to Himself. You see, God really does love you and doesn't want you to suffer. My advice is that you yield to Him in submission, respect, and sincere adoration and let Him transfigure you.

Revelation doesn't fit into your paradigm (fake reality), so you must explain it that way. Your paradigm is more real to you than reality itself. However, followers of Christ are simply people who are allowing Christ to reveal Himself and His creation and to transfigure them so that their paradigms gradually fade and are replaced by real reality. By denying revelation based on naturalis, you assume what you are trying to prove. Christ can set you free from this bondage. Keep an open mind toward Him.

When they change the subject and want to argue about details that can lead to a "tis so!" tis not!" argument:

This is off the point. The point is that you depend on baseless assumptions, and you are happy with that. I depend on real experience, and I'm happy with that. But don't be dogmatic conserning spiritual things about which you know nothing. Be open to the moving of God's Spirit on you. Be open to receiving His freedom from sin, death, and the power of the devil.

There are ample PhD scientists who post to places like Creation dot com or IRC dot org. They do a better job in that area than I ever could. That would answer the details of all the lies you have been told in the name of "education." The real point is that all of this is a choice between the hallucination of assumption or the revelation of Jesus Christ. Jesus is real and He would gladly accept you if you were to change your mind and commit to following Him.

I still have trouble with believing your assumptions no matter how carefully you may have rationalized them. They conflict with my daily experience. Jesus Christ is a Person, not an argument. You are likely to think about the weakness of following after stories, assumptions, and rationalizations. The Holy Spirit may speak to you about this. You too can have this same experience with Christ. Just commit your life to Him. Agree with Him that you will seek to walk with Him. Ask Him to walk with you.

A group-held paradigm is a more powerful delusion than one held by an individual--for instance, evolutionism. However, God does speak, guide, and lead His people. He even speaks to you. But you won't acknowledge. But you don't want the truth. You are scared to death of God, that He might impose His will on you--which He would because His will is better than yours.

To assume anything and then actually believe it is a form of hallucination. When the assumption becomes permanently etched into your thinking in the form of a paradigm, this is bondage. The bondage in the universities is sad to watch. Christ can set you free. Yes, it's a walk from glory to glory, but it is a walk out of darkness into light. Everyone has a paradigm. Christ is the only way to be set free from the bondage of a paradigm. Won't you invite Him to come to you and be your Lord?

I know that God speaks to you because He plainly reveals that He speaks to every person. I know that you don't acknowledge Him because you don't want to, and I know that by revelation. Your naturalistic, materialistic paradigm (false reality) has become more real to you than reality itself. You can challenge it, though. You can ask yourself, "How can I possibly prove that there is no spiritual realm or that God didn't create everything or that evolution actually happened." You can't. Let the Holy Spirit show you real reality. (some caveats about hearing God's Voice)

The Holy Spirit may bring back some of our discussion to our mind in remembrance from time to time. When He does, you may find that your thoughts that you have so boldly put forward are built on a vapor, and you may wonder if they really do make sense. At that time, my advice is that you open your mind to the Spirit of God and that you keep an open mind toward Him.

Stories are unimpressive. Assumptions are hallucination when they are thought to be reality. God says the flood took place, and He left plenty of evidence. Lies to the contrary come from Satan. I prefer real reality. Jesus is the reality. This is a case of hallucination versus reality, assumptions versus the Living God Who leads His people. You really have no concept of spiritual things. It isn't wise to be dogmatic about things you know nothing of.

Stories that are fabricated to make observations and facts seem to fit 3 arbitrary, though carefully rationalized, assumptions (no God, God does nothing, and no flood) do not constitute a kind of science that I can believe in. I would be more confident listening to the Voice of God and letting Him tell me about reality that making random assumptions. He promises to continue to lead into all truth. Listen to His Voice and don't harden your heart against Him.

You have a great imagination. Jesus Christ is real. You really ought to give up fantasies and come to know Him.

Imagination and assumption versus the Living God. Think about how sad it is to live by stories, assumptions, and rationalizations. Let Jesus clear that garbage out of your mind.

Again, imaginative stories based on arbitrary assumptions versus the Living God Whom I know. You really ought to yield yourself to Him. You miss the blessing and set yourself up for terrible judgment by being closed minded toward Him. Why not open your mind to Him. You don't have to decide now, but when the Holy Ghost comes to you and brings these memories back to you, consider listening to Him.

I start with revelation, which fights a naturalistic paradigm (false reality with no proof). Your paradigm (fake reality) doesn't permit God or the spiritual. To make your paradigm work, you accept Naturalism, Atheism/Materialism, Uniformitarianism, and Evolutionism with no proof. Jesus proves Himself to me by speaking to me. So we think differently. Your thinking has no ultimate basis. Mine does. Not only that, but God reveals to me that He reveals Himself to you, but you refuse to acknowledge Him.

It's difficult for us to communicate because we base our beliefs on totally different things. The basis of my belief is my ongoing experience with the real Christ. Yet, your belief is that Christ doesn't commune with His people. My belief is based on Christ speaking to me and leading me. What is your belief based on?

You don't have a clue about spiritual things. It's a good idea not to hold strong opinions concerning topics about which you know little or nothing at all. The reality is that Jesus Christ speaks to everyone who follows Him. He says that His sheep hear His voice, and I have found that to be true. I also know by revelation that He speaks to you. Those who argue against the existence of God, however, do so based on assumptions that are at the root of their thinking. Revelation is superior to arbitrary assumptions.

The difference in our thinking is that you have make-believe faith in Naturalism, Materialism, Uniformitarianism, Evolutionism, and Atheism. I have true faith that is a gift from God that comes to me when He speaks to me. God reveals His vision of reality, while you are trapped in a paradigm (fake reality) that will not allow you to acknowledge God or anything spiritual.

The whole discussion is about thinking based on revelation versus thinking based on non-revelation. Non-revelation consists of made up stories based on arguments from ignorance, circular reasoning, universal negatives, and axioms. Revelation of truth comes from the One Who is truth, Jesus Christ. It comes personally by the Holy Spirit through the human spirit into the inner most mind/soul.

My evidence that God is and that He is the Creator is based on His Voice speaking to me, which results in Him giving me the gift of His faith and then His grace, which is the power for righteousness. What is your evidence for Naturalism, Materialism, Uniformitarianism, Evolutionism, and Atheism?

We all look at the same facts, but we interpret them differently based on our starting point for thinking. Every thought has a starting point of either revelation or hallucination. I try to base everything on revelation, though I am learning to hear His Voice and to submit the the flow of His Holy Anointing.

"The human mind is extremely susceptible to hallucination." Dawkins thinks that for this reason, the human mind can determine that people who are having an experience are not having that experience. Really?? The ungodly starting point for thinking is Naturalism, Materialism, and Uniformitarianism-defended by circular reasoning, baseless declaration, arguments from ignorance, and universal negatives. Christ's revelation is the only sure starting point for thought.

All logic must come down to a starting point of logic, a foundational premise. That starting point could be revelation from God Who cannot lie or hallucination (such as circular reasoning). Dawkins starts with hallucination. Which one do you start with?

Dawkins: "The human mind is extremely susceptible to hallucination." Reason must have a starting point. If that starting point is not revelation, then can it be any more than arbitrary assumption, hallucination?

There is no proof for Naturalism, Materialism, or Uniformitarianism, so it is not scientific to explain away the data that conflicts with these assumptions. However, God is real. I know Him and I'm learning to hear His Voice and obey Him. That's the path that I choose. You can do the same, but there is a price. You must come in obedience, humility, submission, and respect. You must be willing to leave all of your sins behind, since that is exactly what Jesus begins to deliver you from when you commit to follow Him.

As you have admitted, the starting point of your logic is a handful of assumptions (you don't allow them to be challenged): naturalism (God doesn't speak or do anything), materialism (God doesn't exist), and uniformitarianism (there was no 6-day creation or catastrophic worldwide flood). Then you use those assumptions to prove that God doesn't speak or do anything else, God doesn't exist, and there was no 6-day creation or worldwide flood. That is circular.

You know, when you start with Atheistic assumptions, you are going to end up with Atheistic answers. You could skip the expensive hocus pocus and just say, No God, God does nothing, No flood, and save lots of money.

I'm not impressed with assumptions. I will go with Jesus and what He says.

But all your conclusions are based on assumptions. If you changed the assumptions, you would get different conclusions. I will follow Jesus and His leading.

It doesn't matter how well you rationalize your assumptions or how well you tell your stories. They are still stories based on assumptions. No one would accept them unless that person meant to reject their Creator God that He would not rule over them. I choose to follow Jesus and allow Him to rule over me, to guide me, and to direct me.

You can believe what you like, even Naturalism, Materialism, and Atheism, which are all simply baseless assumptions. I will continue to believe the real God and live in reality. The door is open for you to follow Jesus. That won't always be true, though.

Now, you base every thought on assumption. I don't trust assumption. God does speak to every follower of Christ including me. I believe Him. You really should seek Him and find Him. He would change your life and give it meaning and real purpose.

Every scientific conclusion involves reason beyond the observation. Reason always must have a starting point, a foundational premise. That foundational premise is always either revelation or else it is vapor like naturalism, materialism, uniformitarianism, or evolutionism. A chain of thought is as strong as its weakest link. However, they won't teach this weakness of their logic. In fact, they aren't even aware of it. It shocked me one day to find that my logic was working that way. It opened my mind.

Keep out any conflicting ideas. We would not want an open mind, except to naturalism (God doesn't speak or do anything), materialism (God doesn't exist), and uniformitarianism (there was no 6-day creation or catastrophic worldwide flood. How else can we use circular reasoning to prove what we are assuming to be true. And if someone doesn't take those assumptions, out they must go. You'll find out if you try it. But I prefer Truth to assumptions. Truth can only be known by revelation. Science is tentative and changing. What is said to be scientifically valid today will likely be considered stupid tomorrow.

So you base your thoughts on arbitrary assumptions. I base mine on revelation. Your arbitrary assumptions limit your ability to do science.

I know that God speaks to you because He plainly reveals that He speaks to every person. I know that you don't acknowledge Him because you don't want to, and I know that by revelation. Your naturalistic, materialistic paradigm (false reality) has become more real to you than reality itself. You can challenge it, though. You can ask yourself, "How can I possibly prove that there is no spiritual realm or that God didn't create everything or that evolution actually happened." You can't.

You have a lot of make-believe faith. I believe God.

Beliefs like Evolution, Big Bang, Atheism, Scientism, Biblical-Fallibilityism, and Old-Earthism are mere fabricated stories that are based on arbitrary assumptions and are NOT part of reality. Why become dogmatic about such beliefs when you cannot use science to prove the validity of any of them?   They are based in assumptions.  Everyone who comes to Jesus in sincerity finds Him. He is a person, not a dogma (like Atheism, Naturalism, Materialism, Old Earthism, Scientism, etc.). You can test Him. You can't test these Atheistic dogmas.



Author/Compiler
Last updated: Aug, 2013
 
 




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