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Dialogs With Naturalists


Naturalism is an arbitrary assumption and dogmatically believing in it is irrational.

It's impossible to defind Naturalism/Atheism logically. The Naturalists/Atheists/Materialists don't have very many options to defend their make-believe faith.

Naturalism is the direct opposite of reality. The reality is that there is nothing in the natural realm that is not tied to the spiritual realm and the reality is that nothing that we call natural or material happens by itself. Everything is orchestrated by God for His purpose, and we can only understand that parts of His purpose that He reveals.

Naturalist/Atheist Claim What's wrong with this Claim? The Answer
You can't do science without Naturalism, which proves Naturalism. It's a lie You can do better science without dogmatically-held arbitrary assumptions such as Naturalism. We observe an orderly Universe with complex laws that allow us to do science. Naturalism DOES NOT provide any mechanism to enforce these complex laws. Jesus Christ, the Creator Himself Who created every part of the Universe and holds everything in the exact order that we observe (down to the smallest particle that exists) DOES provide a mechanism to enforce these complex laws. And He reveals Himself.  All who are on the side of truth listen to Him. Naturalism is an arbitrary assumption. To make believe that an assumption is a fact or to base your thinking on an assumption is irrational.
I know that Naturalism is real because I was once a Christian and God never spoke to me. It's an argument from ignorance or lack of experience. These are always irrational. Either you only had make-believe faith or you once heard His Voice and had genuine faith but slipped and fell. Jesus says His sheep hear His Voice. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word (Greek: rhema = utterance) of God. For instance, no one can read the Bible without hearing God's Voice, but some people harden their innermost mind against God and never receive the Free Gift of the Faith of God. My experience, and the experiences of millions of followers of Christ who also hear the Voice of Jesus, proves that Naturalism is a lie, but you use make-believe faith to trust the arbitrary assumption of Naturalism.
No one hears God's Voice. It's a diversion and a lie. It also implies that the Atheist/Naturalist is all-knowing. Tell me about the process you use to know the inner personal experience of every person who is now living. To make such a claim is to be irrational and the claim that no one hears God's voice is based on the arbitrary assumption of Naturalism. It is irrational to filter out all the evidence using an arbitrary assumption such as Naturalism.
I have credentials and I say that Naturalism is an obvious fact. It's an appeal to authority: not a logical argument--irrational If it's an obvious fact, tell me how you know that it's an obvious fact, because Naturalism is an arbitrary assumption and making believe that it makes sense or filtering out any fact or observation that disagrees with this arbitrary assumption is irrational.
Since I can't find physical evidence for the spiritual realm, the default position is Naturalism. It's an argument from ignorance: irrational. Not having evidence proves nothing, but they do have evidence. This is an argument from ignorance and it's irrational. We know by revelation that Jesus Christ is the Creator Himself Who created every part of the Universe and holds everything in the exact order that we observe. He controls every part to the smallest particle that exists. What seems, to finite humans, like chaos, He directs and understands. My evidence that it is true is that He personally reveals Himself to me. What is your evidence that this is NOT true?
You have the burden of proof. You must prove that there is a God and that He created everything. This is shifting the burden of proof Jesus Christ speaks. He reveals. I know God exists like I know the Sun exists--through experience. He is obvious to all who have an open mind to Him. However, Naturalism is an assumption. It is arbitrary. You have to make yourself believe it. It is make-believe. It is irrational to make yourself believe in arbitrary assumptions such as Naturalism. To use such an arbitrary assumption as Naturalism to filter out the real world is also irrational and keeps you from seeing reality as it really is.
It's OK to have a universal negative when the thing proposed is obviously stupid like the Easter Bunny or the existence of God. It's a universal negative: irrational.  You cannot prove the non-existence of anything by declaring it to not exist. Actually, universal negatives are always irrational. The Easter Bunny myth self-destructs because it claims that the bunny brings eggs every year, but parents know that this never happens and they get stuck with hiding the eggs. Naturalism is a universal negative and is therefore an irrational belief. I actually have experience with Jesus, which disproves the arbitrary assumption of Naturalism.
Naturalism is logical because it is based on the evidence. It's a bold lie: there is no evidence for Naturalism. There is no evidence that God doesn't exist. No knowledgeable Atheist believes that Naturalism is based on evidence. They freely admit that it is an assumption and try to defend it using rationalization. Rationalizing it the act of trying to make something that is irrational, like believing in an arbitrary assumption, sound as if it were rational.
Naturalism is obvious. How can you say there is no natural world? The natural world is obvious.

It's a strawman: no one said the natural world doesn't exist.

It's equivocation: blurring the meaning of Naturalism

We both agree that there is a natural world but you believe the arbitrary assumption that there is NOT a spiritual world. Your belief is a make-believe faith in an assumption. It is irrational for you to be dogmatic about such a belief. We believe what we have experienced. You have make-believe faith, you try to make yourself believe, that God doesn't exist. We know by experience that Jesus Christ exists and He loves us.
Your experience is subjective, but Naturalism is science.

It's misdirection since all human experience is subjective. No one can get outside of their own being.

It's a lie: Naturalism is not science.

All experience, including the experiences of scientists, are subjective. The most powerful science in empirical science, meaning science by experience/experiment. Naturalism claims that there is no spiritual realm but offers no evidence for this claim, only assumption, rationalization, and lies. We know by empirical evidence that Jesus Christ is involved in our lives in a very intimate way. Whoever seeks Him finds Him.

Supernaturalism is an arbitrary assumption

An attempt to change your real experience to an assumption that it would be hypothetically possible that there is more than the natural realm.

I never said anything about supernaturalism, which would be a philosophy. I didn't tell you about a theory or philosophy but about my real experience with Christ.  Naturalism, on the other hand, is an arbitrary assumption. You cannot tell me about something that proves that there is no God other than to claim that your arbitrary assumption of naturalism proves your arbitrary assumption of naturalism.  That is circular reasoning, though.

You depend of faith but I depend on science.

It's equivocation on the two meanings of the word, faith.

It's a lie in that Naturalism cannot be shown to be valid using science. It is an arbitrary assumption.

This is not a comparison between blind faith and proven fact. The faith of God is not blind, but the make-believe faith in Naturalism is blind--it is belief in an arbitrary assumption. You are in confusion regarding the two meanings of the word, faith. The Faith of God is God's Own Faith that is given as a Gift when He speaks. Your faith in Naturalism is nothing like the faith of God. Your faith in Naturalism is make-believe faith. That is, you make yourself believe it because you want Naturalism to be true. Naturalism is an arbitrary assumption and cannot be shown to be part of reality through empirical means. Jesus Christ is shown to be real through empirical means.

Science proves there is no God.

It's a bold lie.

Science does not prove there is no God. Science proves that the Almighty God created the Universe. If you think that science proves that there is no God, show the steps of your experiment that proves that there is no God. Any person who will do this experiment will find Jesus. The person must come to Jesus with a sincere and open mind and ask Jesus to come and be his or her Master, to rule over them. They must commit to obeying Jesus, and they will find Him. The Creation also speaks of the glory of God.

How could a loving God allow suffering?

Changing the subject. There are many ways that this is attempted. You can briefly answer or tell them that you will discuss this when you finish the discussion on Naturalism.

That is another subject. Does that mean that you now realize that Naturalism is a mere assumption without any basis and that you have no rational reason for believing in it?


Last updated: Aug, 2013
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