|Ungodly Refutations Against Revelational Apologetics and Why They Don't Work|
How will ungodly people try to refute revelational apologetics? Here is a fairly comprehensive list. If you are going to read this page, make sure that you read this page: A word about blogs and revelational apologetics
If someone is called to follow Christ, you will find an open door. The Holy Spirit will have prepared them. You may have to answer some questions and even endure some bad behavior, but a door will definitely open for you to connect with the person. If there is no connection, if there is no spark of life in them, if they reject whatever you say, look away to Jesus and see if you are really being called to talk to this person. The human mind is very deceptive, but if you look to Jesus, He will reveal to you what to do in each situation. God only gives you enough time to do His will. If you waste your time where He has not called you, then you will find that you don't have enough time for real ministry.
If you are starting to get angry or frustrated, you are probably following your ego rather than Christ.
The ungodly have nothing that has substance in their arguments against Christ or the Bible. In every case, they bring some kind of rationalization: a made-up story, an unsubstantiated assertion, an arbitrary assumption, an irrational thought, an outright lie, or some combination of these. You can just point out that these are rationalizations. Then present the Gospel in all cases rather than just knocking down arguments. Here are a couple of examples of how the Gospel might be presented:
"Thank you for the great example of a weak argument. You make my point very well. All of your arguments against Christ are based on rationalization--nothing--ideas pulled from air. On the other hand, we have not followed cleverly designed fables as the Atheists do. But that which we have tasted and seen of Christ, that is our reason for believing. It is God's divine revelation compared with your rationalization. Life is available through Christ alone. I know this by revelation. Christ is now offering His Life to you, but, so far you have been choosing death."
"I am concerned for you. You could die within the next minute. If you do, I know, by revelation, that anyone who is not made clean by the blood of Jesus Christ will end up in Hell. I don't want that for you, yet you keep rejecting Him based on nothing but rationalizations. You do know He exists. I know that by revelation. You deny it based on rationalization, yet you know that He exists, that He is your Creator God and your Judge, and yet you will yourself to be ignorant of this."
Examples of what you may hear:
This is a claim that "everything that is real is scientifically verifiable." This claim is not scientifically verifiable, so that idea, by its own definition, is not valid. So, this is an irrational statement. It is self-refuting. (See scientism)
You will find that every argument that can be brought against revelational apologetics is dependent on irrational statements, made-up stories, arbitrary assumptions, outright lies, or some combination of these. (Read about the problems with claims like this.)
"Your statement is self-refuting, therefore it is irrational. By revelation, I know that life is available through Christ alone. He is now offering His Life to you, but, so far you have been choosing death. I know this by revelation. All of your arguments against Christ are based on rationalization--nothing--ideas pulled from air."
"Can you describe the scientific experiment that I can do to scientifically prove your claim. you claim that only that which is scientifically verifiable is valid. If your claim is correct, then I need a way that I can verify it using scientific method, you know, repeatable experimentation that can be verified."
If you ask them how they are defining science, you will find all sorts of answers. Most will not know any definition. Most people who are in the sciences have three basic arbitrary assumptions that they begin with: Materialism (which includes Atheism as a component), Naturalism (which includes Atheism as a component), and Uniformitarianism (which includes worldwide catastrophic flood denial and creation denial as components). This means that their very definition of science means there is no God and there was no creation of flood. Beginning with these three assumptions as a filter for what they will accept as evidence, they then set out to prove that there is no proof for God, creation, or the flood. Duh!
What the person is saying is, "You and millions of people who are following Christ are not experiencing what you are experiencing!" This argument of the ungodly person is plainly irrational, though it is a common argument. It takes many forms, but it is an insane argument.
"What is the method that you use to determine my innermost spiritual experiences and those of every follower of Christ who has ever lived? If you don't want to answer this question to me, at least answer it to yourself and realize that you are basing your assertion on a rationalization. Life is available through Christ alone. I know this by revelation. Christ is now offering His Life to you, but, so far you have been choosing death. All of your arguments against Christ are based on rationalization--nothing--ideas pulled from air."
"What makes you think that the Almighty Creator of the Universe Who loves every person and desires fellowship with every person would not be capable of communication?"
This comes when they finally realize that they are basing everything in their lives on assumptions and imagination. This is the basis for Atheism. This is the basis for big-bangism, evolutionism, old-earthism, and anti-Bibleism. None of these ever have any merit. When they realize this, it means you have communicated through their fog. Then, they will often want to insinuate that you are in the same boat as they are. However, revelation and rationalization are two separate things. One consists of truth and the other consists of lies.
"Unless you are claiming divine inspiration, you are making up a story, assuming, or imagining that my source is something other than what I have told you that it is, that is, Jesus Christ. And it is Jesus Christ Who is offering you life, yet you prefer death."
"Are you assuming Naturalism, that is, that there is no God, and then using that to rule out the possibility that God can communicate with His people?"
Sometimes, they will come up with something specific. They may say that distant starlight indicates that the Universe is billions of years old and that this conflicts with the Bible, and then reason from that point that there is no God or at least that the Bible is irrelevant. You might then ask, "Are you then assuming that The Almighty Creator of the Universe would not be able, either by natural or supernatural means, to have billions of years pass in most of the Universe while little or no time passed on the Earth? If so, how would such a restriction work to restrain God? Are you also assuming a speed for the one-way travel of light, or didn't you know that there is no way to scientifically test the one-way speed of light?" There are other such arguments, but every one is based on some rationalization. We used the starlight one here because some old-earthers and atheists think that this is really hard to answer.
"What you have presented is just one more example of an argument based on rationalization. I'll repeat the truth for you: 1. God has given you adequate evidence to make you well aware that He exists, that He is your Judge, that you will have to face Him, and that you have fallen short of His Glory. 2. Every supposed evidence against the Creator or the Bible always turns out to be based on rationalizations: on some combination of made-up stories, arbitrary assumptions, irrational statements, or outright lies. 3. God speaks. He communicates with His people. Every person who follows Him is led by Him. 4. Christ is offering you forgiveness and freedom from your slavery to Satan. There is no possible hope for you outside of Jesus Christ. 5. Christ is verifiable, but Atheists tend not to want to verify Him. Whoever keeps seeking Him in respectful submission to His will and wanting to do His will and be freed from sin finds Him. Every single one does. That is testable. If you If you seek Him in this way sincerely, you will find Him and He will receive you. On the other hand, you can test this: If you go to Christ with a flippant attitude, not sincerely wanting to do His will, you will not find Him. 6. I know these points are true because God has revealed them to me."
"Thank you for one more example of the fact that every evidence against the Creator or the Bible is based on some combination of made-up stories, arbitrary assumptions, irrational statements, or outright lies. Those who follow Christ don't have to resort to make-believe things like those who attack Christ and the Bible use. The Holy Spirit reveals reality to us. And, right now, Christ is calling to you and asking you to humble yourself before Him, to repent and ask for His forgiveness. He will receive you if you will."
"So you are saying that if God reveals Himself to someone, that doesn't prove that God exists? What makes you think that divine revelation is not proof of God's existence?"
"Revelation is the only proof of anything. You see, Jesus is the Truth. Truth is Reality. Jesus is the Reality. If there were no revelation, then we really couldn't know anything about anything. Everything would be merely an opinion. Without revelation you can't even prove that you exist. If you try, someone can present a different explanation in which you don't really exist. Such philosophies are out there, and they are impossible to refute without revelation. However, by revelation, I know that there is a real world. Also, by revelation, I know that you need Jesus Christ. He is your only hope. And He would forgive you if you turn and give yourself to Him in loving submission. Then, you can verify His revelation for yourself, since everyone who sincerely seeks Him in deep respect and submission always finds Him."
"Frankly, God has revealed Himself to you and to every person through the things that He has created. He clearly is saying that this is enough to condemn any person who refuses to acknowledge Him. He further reveals Himself through the prophetic words in the Bible and is clearly saying that those who refuse to hear Him as He speaks through these words would not respond to any proof of any kind. So, a person who doesn't respond has a hard heart against God. God is very plain in explaining that those who refuse to acknowledge Him love darkness rather than light. They prefer paths other than the Way that leads to the genuine and absolute fullness of Life. They love sin rather than righteousness. They prefer pleasure to God. However, if any of these people turn to God in respect, submission, and obedience, God will forgive their sins through the Blood of Jesus Christ and begin to set them free from the desire to sin."
"I'm not able to judge your relationship with Christ at all. There are many who think that just being religious, going to church, doing forms or rituals, or many other things is what God requires. God wants a relationship. Everyone who truly seeks Him finds Him, so long as they come in respect and set their will follow to His will."
"Rationalized faith is of no value. The faith of God comes to you as a free gift when you hear His Utterance and acknowledge Him. I can't judge your past, but I can tell you that if you never were led by Him, you had a worthless rationalized faith rather than the faith of God, which is what is required."
"If you have read the Bible at all, God has spoken to you. You are telling me that you never acknowledge Him when He spoke to you. You kept the veil of your own fleshly nature between you and God as a filter. If you had acknowledged Him, He would have taken you to Himself. His faith would have come to you and given you access to His grace, which would, in turn, have done His works through you. He would have pardoned all your sins and He would have begun to remove your old sinful nature. And all of this is available to you right now, but there will be a time when it will be too late for you."
"What is the method by which you know there is no God? Show me the steps of your science by which you determine this. All arguments against Christ are based on rationalizations--ideas pulled from air--try to think of one example. The fact is that Life is available through Christ alone. I know this by revelation. Christ is now offering His Life to you, but, so far you have been choosing death."
"From and Atheist advice site: 'Most atheists on this forum including myself define atheism as a lack of belief rather than disbelief because it is impossible to prove a universal negative. . . . I am just curious how others feel about this because numerous atheist sites are upset about this "lack of belief definition" and stick fast to an active disbelief' Here is the question. If an atheist just 'doesn't have enough evidence to believe' as they claim, that means that they admitting to ignorance. If they are ignorant, why make a big deal about it. Go on with life. On the other hand, if an atheist claims that God doesn't exist, what is the method by which they think that they know this?"
This is known as an argument from ignorance. It says, "Whatever I have not personally experienced does not exist." That is irrational. A person's lack of knowledge of something cannot make it not exist. Yet, the same ungodly person takes the word of the text books that are written by biased writers who are trapped within their own failed paradigms. Every argument against God is always based on some combination of made-up stories, arbitrary assumptions, irrational statements, or outright lies. These may be hidden in presuppositions within paradigms in the minds of the person who is hindered by them, and they may seldom or never come to the consciousness of the person who is blinded by them. This problem of paradigms is usually beyond what most people can understand, so it usually doesn't help the discussion unless that person is really open-minded and willing to learn or has had some kind of training in paradigms and confirmation bias.
"This is known as an argument from ignorance. It is irrational. You are, in essence, stating that whatever you don't know about does not exist. I know this by revelation. Christ is now offering His Life to you, but, so far you have been choosing death. All of your arguments against Christ are based on rationalizations--ideas pulled from air."
This is just not true. We all make mistakes, We only know in part. We are in the process of learning how to hear His Voice and to respond in submission. We aren't even that good at it. We can be deceived, but we trust God to straighten us out when we become deceived. We are in the middle of what is an incomplete process. The Atheist and the evidentialist is very happy to say that science is an imperfect process, so why are they upset about this particular incomplete process? We are in the position of knowing God, but not building on dogmatic belief based on the past. We are in an unfolding revelation. That means that we must hold onto our doctrine loosely enough that God is still able to correct us at the right time. And, we must remember what God is telling us through Scripture, "If anyone knows anything, they don't know it as they ought to know it."
"In fact, I'm not any authority at all except to whatever point that I have learned to be submissive to God. God is the only authority. I know this by revelation. Christ is now offering His Life to you, but, so far you have been choosing death. All of your arguments against Christ are based on rationalizations--ideas pulled from air."
"You can't prove to me that you don't have enough evidence to know that God exists. God reveals to me that you do know that He exists, that He is your Judge, and that you fall short of His Glory. Why would I try to prove something to you that you already know and of which you are being willingly ignorant. I know this by revelation and I know Jesus Christ by revelation. He isn't an argument, theology, theory, or idea. He is a Person Whom I know and Whom you are aware of--no rationalizations or arguments required. Christ is now offering His Life to you, but, so far you have been choosing death. All of your arguments against Christ are based on rationalizations--ideas pulled from air."
"Can you prove that you don't already know that God exists? He says that you know. God also says that you need no more evidence than you already have, so He holds you accountable. I believe God rather than you. You are basing your entire life on made-up stuff: fabrications, stories, arbitrary assumptions, irrational thinking, and outright lies. I am basing my life or reality, actual ongoing moment-by-moment experience with Christ. Everyone who follows Christ is led by Him just as I am. Christ is now offering His Life to you, but, so far you have been choosing death. Turn to Him and begin to enter into the genuine and absolute fullness of Life."
"Yes. That is true. That is why we don't trust the human mind. We trust that God is able to correct us, reveal to us, conform us to the image of Christ, and deliver us from this evil mind that is so easily fooled. God does this progressively, as He has revealed from glory to glory, from faith to faith. The path of the just is as a shining light that is shining more and more until that Day of Completeness. God is always rational, but we are careful not to lean on our own understanding. We acknowledge Him, and He directs our paths. I know this by revelation. Christ is now offering His Life to you, but, so far you have been choosing death. All of your arguments against Christ are based on rationalizations--they have no substance."
First, the fact that there are lies does not eliminate the possibility of truth. Satan is very quick to create counterfeits of everything that God does, and then he claims that his counterfeits existed first and that God copied him.
Second, revelation is not dependent on human beings. The first apostles admitted, "We all make many mistakes." However, the Holy Spirit is in the business of correcting our mistakes. We need to hold our doctrine, our beliefs, our habits, loosely enough that the Holy Spirit is able to correct us. Plus, there is a multiplicity of ministries that is built into the scriptural order of the church that is a safeguard against gross error. There are obviously divisions/denominations, but most agree on basic principles. God will eventually have one Church and the Holy Spirit will teach each of us about our own errors. The truth will set us free. The main point is that revelation is not dependent on us. The ungodly person is saying that the human mind cannot be trusted so we should trust the human mind. We say that the human mind should not be trusted so we should trust God to correct and edify the human mind.
These are the irrational arguments that claim: "There are lies, therefore truth cannot exist." "There are counterfeits, therefore nothing can be genuine." They don't state it in this obvious way, but you will find statements made that really are based on this bit of irrationality.
"So, you are claiming that if there is a counterfeit, then we cannot possibly know the Real God?"
"So, you are claiming that if there is a lie, then there cannot be truth?"
"How does the counterfeit make the genuine any less genuine?"
"So, your assertion is based on a rationalization--even if you thought that it was logical, it was not. You are rejecting Christ based on rationalizations. As we discuss this, Christ is revealing Himself to you and asking you to acknowledge Him. But God is now revealing to you the fact that life is available through Christ alone. He is now offering His Life to you, but, so far you have been choosing death." (Note that whatever God reveals is fact.)
This is the agnostic position. Formal agnosticism says, "Not only do I know nothing about spiritual things or God, but I also know that you know nothing about God." By phasing it as a question, the agnostic avoids the irrational claim that they are all-knowing (knowing that you can't know God) and therefore can know the inner spiritual experience of every person. Of course, the answer is simple. We know by revelation. An Example
"I know Him because He reveals Himself to every person who seeks Him in sincerity, humility, submission, and obedience."
"Seek Him. Respect Him. Acknowledge Him. Set your will to do His will. Life is available through Christ alone. I know this by revelation. Christ is now offering His Life to you, but, so far you have been choosing death. All of your arguments against Christ are based on rationalization--nothing--ideas pulled from air."
"There is a great difference between knowing someone is real (confirming existance) and knowing them personally. You can "actually" meet Jesus by searching--it's the only way. Jeremiah 29:13 says: 'And you shall seek me, and find me, when you shall search for me with all your heart.'"
"You understand perfectly, then, what it is to know someone personally. We meet Jesus, abide in His Presence, and know Him in exactly that way, even though He is not restricted to the material realm alone. No one knows Jesus because of a rationalized faith. They must hear His Voice and acknowledge it. And God speaks through Scripture and many other means. If you turn to Him in this way, you will find Him and He will deliver you from the human tendency to step off of the path that leads to genuine and absolute fullness of Life."
This may be a sincere question of a question just to look for something to argue with.
"God speaks through many means. Rather than go into my own experiences, we can look at the Bible: visions, dreams, a word of wisdom, a word of knowledge, prophecy, a still small voice, lessons from the creation, and even speaking throug a donkey. He speaks through His people whenever His people are speaking by the Holy Spirit." The Bible doesn't speak nor do we worship the Bible nor is the Bible our foundation, but Christ speaks through the Bible, we worship Christ and Christ is our foundation. He is not a theory. He is not a theology. He is God. He is real. And we interact with Him directly. We are just learning to hear His Voice and to respond in obedience, but we know that He is real because He reveals Himself to us. The great thing is that if you seek Him, you too will find Him." http://www.SeekFind.net/Revelational_Apologetics_God_Speaks.html
"We serve a living Savior. I see His hand of mercy. I hear His voice. And every time I need Him, He's always near. You ask me how I know He lives. He lives within my innermost mind."
"We don't worship the Bible, but the Bible is one of the means by which Christ speaks to us. He is the One Who tells us that the Bible is His Word without error. Every argument against the Bible has been answered over the last 2,000 years, and they are all fabrications. But everyone who follows Christ is led by Christ. He speaks to them in many ways, including through the Bible, and yet never contradicts Himself in any of those ways. A life of following Christ is an ever-growing experience of Him in reality, not in theory."
"Concerning the snake that talked to Eve, what do you know about Satan and his abilities that would allow you to say that this is not possible--and how do you have this knowledge? Have you made any arbitrary assumptions? Life is available through Christ alone. I know this by revelation.Christ is now offering His Life to you, but, so far you have been choosing death. All of your arguments against Christ are based on rationalization--nothing--ideas pulled from air."
You could mention Naturalism, Materialism, Uniformitarianism, Evolutionism, Old-Earthism, Big-Bangism, or Atheism. All of these have tons of smaller made-up stories associated with them, on which they depend. No one tries to prove any of these. They are stated as fact without evidence--every one of them. For molecules-to-man evolution, for instance, no one ever tries to prove that it actually happened. They try to explain away the evidence that makes it impossible. It is assumed that, if it is possible, then it happened. And it is assumed that the problems that make it impossible will eventually be solved; however, it becomes more impossible with each new discovery. You can go there, but you would need much study of science on creation.com and ICR.org and Answers in Genesis or they will lie and you won't know how to answer. Even then, getting into the fine details is very time-consuming, so you may want to avoid this route (though it is fascinating). the following may save some time:
"Name one evidence for the non-existence of God that is not base on made-up stories, arbitrary assumptions, irrational statements, or outright lies."
"Scripture cannot be properly interpreted by any human being. The Holy Spirit must reveal it to us or we get it wrong every time. Even when the Holy Spirit reveals anything to us, He only reveals in part. We must realize that there is much more that has not yet been revealed than that which has been revealed. In any case, a person, whether Atheist, Christian, or something else, who is trying to interpret the Scripture without the revelation of the Holy Spirit will always get it wrong since they are using the natural mind. A person who is not submitted to Christ at all, who is not born again, cannot possibly see reality as it really is, since they are still spiritually blind. First come in submission to the King of kings and then humbly accept whatever He reveals to you knowing that you don't know it as you ought to know it."
"Every scientific experiment is a personal experience. However, as with the Christian experience, there are ways of verifying when many people have the same experience. This is how we have such consensus on the Bible. And, as with science, we can tell when someone leaves "the tracks" of reality and begins using made up stories, arbitrary assumptions, irrational statements, or outright lies. Some may choose to follow theologies or theories (and there are many) that are based on such things, but these theories/theologies ought to be held very loosely. God speaks through science (His creation), through the Bible, and directly, but if someone expands on what God says or rationalizes away some of what He says, this isn't wise. Life is available through Christ alone. I know this by revelation.Christ is now offering His Life to you, but, so far you have been choosing death. All of your arguments against Christ are based on rationalization--nothing--ideas pulled from air."
"The same thought keeps being applicable to this conversation, and it remains true, but you have not acknowledged the truth of it, so I repeat it: In what you just said, you are speaking from rationalization. I am speaking from revelation. Life is available through Christ alone. I know this by revelation.Christ is now offering His Life to you, but, so far you have been choosing death. All of your arguments against Christ are based on rationalization--nothing--ideas pulled from air."
"Since it is true but you have not acknowledged the truth of it, I repeat it. I am concerned for you. You could die within the next minute. If you do, I know, by revelation, that anyone who is not made clean by the blood of Jesus Christ will end up in Hell. I don't want that for you, yet you keep rejecting Him based on nothing but rationalizations. He is available to you if you come in humility to Him. You do know He exists. I know that that you know. How can I know this? By revelation. You deny it based on rationalization, yet you know that He exists, that He is your Creator God and your Judge, and yet you will yourself to be ignorant of this."
"I don't mind answering you at all--repetition of truth is good. Perhaps you may come to understand the difference between revelation and rationalization. Rationalization consists of things that we make up or that others make up and we receive rationalizations from these others. When I say others, I'm including both human and spiritual entities."
These are fishing expeditions. This is the old game of where you ask questions trying to find something to argue about. They may ask, They actually learn these things in classes or special websites that are built to teach such things to trap people in their words.
All such questions have answers. There is nothing complex about someone speaking and someone else listening, though. God speaks. We hear. Faith comes--that is a mystery, but everyone who has faith knows what it's like. We know the Bible is the Word of God without error because God makes that real to our minds. He speaks it into our innermost minds. And, He speaks to us through the Bible. The Bible doesn't speak to us by itself. Without the Anointing of God on it, it is still the dead letter.
Answer the question as briefly as possible and then give the Gospel.
These are given as examples of changing the subject to side issues, straw man arguments, irrational claims, etc. The ungodly person has been so brainwashed into certain arguments they want to bring them.
Every ungodly argument is based on arbitrary assumptions, irrational thinking, made-up stories, or outright lies, but the ungodly are brainwashed and they want to bring these stories and talk about them. If you care to talk about things like the light-speed-distant-starlight issue, the micro-macro-evolution issue, the radiometric dating issue, or any other issues they bring, then you will need to do some study. Otherwise, you can simply say,
"Those are side issues. This is what God says to me and I believe Him rather than you. Life is available through Christ alone. I know this by revelation.Christ is now offering His Life to you, but, so far you have been choosing death. All of your arguments against Christ are based on rationalization--nothing--ideas pulled from air."
This is given as an example of total irrationality. This would include name calling, raising voices, physical threats, bad language, personal attacks against you or against God or against the Bible, and such like.
It's usually good to listen first. At some point you will want to show them that their reactions are irrational. If they make up stories, point out that they are making your point by coming up with fables. If they are outright lies, point it out. If they are arbitrary assumptions, such as naturalism or materialism, ask for the scientific method by which they can be verified. A soft answer turns away wrath.
"That response seems to make my point, since it is irrational. Every argument against Christ is irrational, a fabrication, a lie, an assumption, or something like that. Life is available through Christ alone. I know this by revelation. Christ is now offering His Life to you, but, so far you have been choosing death. "
This probably indicates that the person has a really well-developed paradigm that he or she thinks is real reality when it is just fake reality. God's revelation doesn't fit into that fake-reality.
"You will not be able to fit this into your preconceived ideas. You will have to think outside of the limitations of your current paradigm/worldview and open your mind to new possibilities. God speaks. Everyone who follows God is led by Him. The concept is simple, but it outside of your current perception of the world."
Last updated: Nov, 2013
Toons & Vids
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How Can We Know Anything About God?
A Word About Blogs and Revelational Apologetics
It's Not About Proving that God Exists
Ungodly Refutations Against Revelational Apologetics and Why They Don't Work
The Problem of Paradigms and Presuppositions
Revelational Apologetics: God Speaks
Answer to Critic
Appeal to Possibility
Argument to the Future
Love Between a Man and Woman
Righteousness & Holiness
Proof by Atheism
Scriptures About Marriage
The Reason for Rejecting Truth
Witness on the Internet
Flaky Human Reasoning
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The Real Purpose of the Church
The Real Purpose of Life
From Glory to Glory
REAL Faith--What it IS & IS NOT
REAL Love--What it IS & IS NOT
How to be Led by God
How to Witness
Wisdom: Righteousness & Reality
Holiness & Mind/Soul
Redemption: Free From Sin
Stories Versus Revelation
Circular Reasoning-Who is Guilty?
How Can We Know Anything?
Mind Designed to Relate to God
Answers for the Confused
Fossil Record Says: "Creation"
Avoid These Pitfalls
Public School's Religion
Public School Failures