If you have not read Stories Versus Truth, you may want to read that before reading this.

Throwing mud at the wall in hopes that some of it may stick is the tactic of producing volumes of statements or questions to produce the illusion that there is so much evidence in favor of your contention that it is useless to argue.  Sometimes this is known as tossing the elephant.  Sometimes, to prove a theological point, someone will give ten or twenty references from Scripture.  When you check them out, you find that not one of them really supports the theology that is being presented.  Sometimes the same type of thing is done with science or philosophy.  A person gives so-called "facts" of science in volume.  When you check these "facts" out, you find that none of them supports the contention of the person who threw the proverbial mud at the wall.  None of the mud sticks.  However, checking them out involves much more work that slinging the mud.

This is usually just a form of trolling, that is, they troll for Christians as one would troll for fish, with provocative statements or questions but a mind that is totally closed and set on destruction.  Do not debate.  Debates are contests with winners and losers.  Once the human ego is engaged in a contest, rational thinking goes out the window.  Here is a page on how to handle trolling.

An easy way to handle these people is to tell them the truth:

Every evidence that is used against God consists of made-up stories (lies), arbitrary assumptions (lies), or irrational statements (insanity). We have not followed cleverly designed made-up stories, arbitrary assumptions, or irrational statements. Rather, we follow the Living Christ, Who leads us and speaks the Utterances of absolute, genuine fullness of Life to us.

What do you say if they reject Christ and just want to argue?

Whatever they come back with will consist of made-up stories (lies), arbitrary assumptions (lies), or irrational statements (insanity). This is true whether they say "Evolution is science," "There is no God," "God doesn't speak to you," "You are stupid," "You don't understand science," "I don't have enough evidence to believe," "There is no evidence for God," "The Bible has errors," or any other thing, so just say some variation of the following:

Thank you for providing an excellent example: Every evidence that is used against God consists of made-up stories (lies), arbitrary assumptions (lies), or irrational statements (insanity). We have not followed cleverly designed made-up stories, arbitrary assumptions, or irrational statements. Rather, we follow the Living Christ, Who leads us and speaks the Utterances of absolute, genuine fullness of Life to us. (example using this on an blog)

Here is an example of this tactic that came in an email to SeekFind.net.  Not one of the contentions in this email turns out to be valid.  All are based in poor logic -- errors in thinking.

"When evolution is seen as a storytelling game rather than a serious attempt at scientific explanation, it suddenly makes sense."

Beginning of Example #1 of Throwing Mud at the Wall:

Let me (said the writer of the email) start by saying that I believe in a higher power that designed all of this. However, I have a hard time with the bible and religion as a whole for the following reasons.

1) Religion has and will always be the biggest dividing force on this planet today. It is also responsible for the most violent acts against those who think differently.

2) If you believe the bible is the word of God then about 95% of the people on the planet will be going to Hell. God's own words layout the penalties for disobeying him.
Examples...Breaking the 10 commandments as most everyone has done. If you even look at another in the opposite sex and for one moment wonder about what could be then you have committed adultery.

3) Gays are an abomination and are to be put to death. If you don't believe this is in the bible then you haven't read it. If God created man in his image then isn't he responsible for this? Why can't people be free to choose how they want to live? I am not Gay if you are thinking that is why I am questioning this. However, I do not have any hatred toward Gays. They are people just like you and me just with different lifestyles. Why should they go to Hell or be put to death?

4) People who do not accept God are going to Hell. What about people that live in such remote places that they have never heard of God? What about Jews who've been around for longer than Christians? Wasn't Jesus a Jew?Jesus states that the only way to the father is through me. Are all these people going to Hell?

5) Prayer does NOT work. Jesus says that whatever you ask for in prayer, if you believe, will be given. If that were true then there would be no cancer on this planet. Millions of people have prayed for this believing God would answer but there is nothing. You could get millions more to pray for an end to hunger and I tell you nothing will happen. How can a God that LOVES all his children allow such horror to occur when millions pray for it to end. People go to church, give their money and pray for things that never will happen.

6) All the days of your lives have been planned by God including your Birth and day of your death. If that is correct then all abortions, murders, starvation, rapes, infant deaths...etc...are God's will. How can that be? I could never worship a God that would do this and claim to love me.

7) Jesus' story is not unique. There are other documentations of "Gods" born of a virgin who died and were resurrected. Chrishna, Mithra, Horus, Buddha...I could go on but you get the idea. What makes Jesus' story right above these? I do believe Jesus existed. I am not sure about all the other events because they were written by Man as was the bible.

8) Where has God gone? Why has he not left any evidence that he is now or has ever existed? In the old testament he was always around talking to people and also directly getting involved in events. Why would he stop doing this?

And, why does God need money? All of these churches and, in particular, the mega churches build massive buildings with Starbucks and other eating places in them but yet give only about 5% of the money they take in directly helping those in need. I saw a story in the paper recently about a big 5 million dollar expansion to one of the mega churches. Then later in the story it told how they had donated 5,000 dollars to feed the hungry. What a crock of shit that is! Religion seems to be all about "look at me and what a good Christian I am!" and less about helping those in need. There are exceptions I understand and those that really believe in doing "God's work" as he commanded.

As I said I would like intelligent answers/debate on this to help me understand why is it that God would punish his children that attend church regularly, pray and give money to his churches.

end of Example #1 of Throwing Mud at the Wall:

• The first question is answered here: http://www.SeekFind.net/Religion_has_and_will_always_be_the_biggest_dividing_force_on_this_planet_today.html
• The statement about the "higher power is answered here: http://www.SeekFind.net/I_believe_in_a_higher_power_that_designed_all_of_this_However_I_have_a_hard_time_with_the_bible_and_religion_as_a_whole.html
• The second question is answered here: http://www.SeekFind.net/Answers_Too_many_people_are_going_to_be_in_hell.html
• One of the questions under the third question is answered here: http://www.SeekFind.net/Why_Does_God_Have_to_Judge_Sin_Sin_Isnt_Such_a_Bad_Thing_Why_Cant_We_All_Just_Do_What_We_Want.html
• Another one of the questions under the third question is answered here: http://www.SeekFind.net/God_Is_Light_And_Not_Darkness.html
  http://www.SeekFind.net/You_need_to_be_saved_from_slavery_to_sin_and_all_the_lies_and_from_the_second_death.html
  http://www.SeekFind.net/Romans_623.html
  http://www.SeekFind.net/Isaiah_592.html
  http://www.SeekFind.net/Gods_Purpose_Is_To_Bring_You_Back_Into_His_Family.html
  http://www.seekfind.net/TheyLoveDarknessRatherThanLightSoTheyRejectSalvationFromDarknessToLight.html
  http://www.SeekFind.net/Questions_and_Answers__How_Much_Sin_Can_I_Do_and_Still_Go_To_Heaven.html
• One of the questions in the fourth question is answered here: http://www.SeekFind.net/Question_People_who_do_not_accept_God_are_going_to_Hell_How_could_God_do_that.html
• Another part of the fourth question is answered here: http://www.SeekFind.net/Question_What_about_people_who_have_never_heard_of_Jesus.html
• Another question under number four is answered here: http://www.SeekFind.net/Do_Jews_go_to_hell.html
• This answers part of number 5:
  http://www.SeekFind.net/Some_people_think_that_prayer_does_not_work_Some_people_dont_understand_what_prayer_is_or_how_it_works.html
  You can also read the following page and its sub-pages to get some more information:
  http://www.SeekFind.net/QuestionsAboutPrayerAnswered.html
• Here is the answer to the second half of the accuser's question number five:
  http://www.SeekFind.net/If_God_is_good_and_God_created_all_things_then_why_is_there_evil.html
• The answer to Number 6 can be found here:  http://www.SeekFind.net/If_God_has_planned_everything_then_why_are_things_as_they_are.html< 
• The answer to your question number seven is here:
  http://www.SeekFind.net/You_may_hear_someone_say_Jesus_story_is_not_unique_There_are_other_documentations_of_Gods_born_of_a_virgin_who_died_and_were_resurrected.html
• The answer to the statement toward the end of number seven is here:
  http://www.SeekFind.net/You_may_hear_a_statement_like_the_following_The_Bible_is_just_a_book_that_was_written_by_man.html
• The first part of queston number eight is answered here:
  http://www.SeekFind.net/Why_doesnt_God_give_any_evidence_for_His_existence.html 
• This is the answer to the first of those questions found under number eight:
  http://www.SeekFind.net/Why_does_God_need_money.html
• You will find the answer to another statement at the end of this email regarding the abusive spending of some: http://www.SeekFind.net/Some_People_Turn_Away_From_God_Because_of_the_Waste_Entertainment_Gospel_and_Emphasis_on_that_Which_is_NOT_According_to_Scripture.html
• Here is the answer to the last statement that was made:
• http://www.SeekFind.net/Religion_seems_to_be_all_about_look_at_me_and_what_a_good_Christian_I_am_and_less_about_helping_those_in_need.html

Eight questions are far too many to present or to answer all at once. In addition, each question represents quite a few statements and questions, each of which must be answered. There are many logical errors embedded into these questions and statements, so it is quite a job to analyze them and respond to each one. Though the questions begin what almost appears to be a sincere inquiry, reading down, the closed mind and judgmental attitude becomes obvious. Every one of these questions is was answered on SeekFind.net one at a time over a period of time and a URL where the answer was created was sent to the person who sent this "mud at the wall." The accuser never responded to any of the answers until they had all been answered. Then the accuser responded with the "I can't understand you" tactic.

In fact, it is rare that a skeptic does not use this tactic.  Here is another example that came in our email in which every question can be easily answered.  Not one of them poses any problem for the Bible, the book that God wrote.  Yet when they are answered, they will have no effect on the person who presented them because that person does not want to be in obedience to the Almighty.  Their rebellion has caused them to be a slave of Satan.

Beginning of Example #2 of Throwing Mud at the Wall:

 Let's pose some more questions that you won't find on seekfind (claims the writer or the email).  Let me quote Genesis.

 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

 3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning--the first day.

How was there light when the sun wasn't created until the 4th day?

 6 And God said, "Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning--the second day.

 9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.
    11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning--the third day.

 14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so.

In one day God created 10,000 galaxies, seventy sextillion stars and 2 billion earth-like planets just in our galaxy. Then God spends another day just creating the sun and moon. Are all these days the same length? I got the info from googling and they are probably untrustworthy sites like CNN, Wikipedia, etc.

1.) How do you explain it?


16 God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning--the fourth day.

 20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky." 21So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning--the fifth day.

 24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
    26 Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a]and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

2.) Why does it say in "our image"?

3.) I've read where God had a wife in one older version of the bible and she got eliminated in a newer version.

4.) I guess they must have forgot to edit it.

 27 So God created mankind in his own image,
   in the image of God he created them;
   male and female he created them.

5.) Why is it that God created Adam from dirt and then had to use a rib to create Eve?

6.) Wouldn't that [the fact that Eve was created from Adam's rib] make her essentially a twin of Adams?  Wouldn't that mean that their sex was incest? Thus their offspring should be deformed, no?

7.) Also when Cain took a wife, where did she come from?

8.) Where did all the people in the land of Nod come from?

 28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

    29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground--everything that has the breath of life in it--I give every green plant for food." And it was so.
    31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning--the sixth day.

Then lets skip ahead to the Great Flood. Many questions there.

9.) How did all the 2 million species get to the ark? How did Noah fit them all on the ark?

10.) Where did all the food and water to feed them come from for the lengthy voyage?

11.) What happened to all the urine and excrement? Ark must have smelled real bad.

12.) When the animals debarked from the ark, how did they get to places like Australia, South America, the South Pole, Alaska, etc.?

13.) Since all plant life had been destroyed and there was also no animal life, what did the herbivores eat?

14.) What did the carnivores eat? If they ate the smaller species, then that would have led to the extinction of a lot of species since there were only 2 of each on the ark.

15.) Then there is the question of 8 white people on the ark somehow creating races of Negro, Indian, Asian, Hispanic, etc. I'd sure like to hear an explanation of that one.

end of Example #2 of Throwing Mud at the Wall:

The answer to question 1 in this set is found here:
http://www.SeekFind.net/How_could_there_be_light_on_the_first_day_when_the_Sun_wasnt_created_until_the_fourth_day.html

The answer to question 2 is found here: http://www.SeekFind.net/Why_does_it_say_in_our_image.html

The answer to question 3 is found here: http://www.SeekFind.net/Someone_thinks_that_God_had_a_wife_in_one_older_version_of_the_bible_and_she_got_eliminated_in_a_newer_version.html

That answer to question 4 is found here: http://www.SeekFind.net/Presupposition_is_a_Very_Powerful_and_Hypnotic_Method_of_Deception.html

The answer to question 5 about why Eve was created from Adam's rib is found here: http://www.SeekFind.net/Why_is_it_that_God_created_Adam_from_dirt_and_then_had_to_use_a_rib_to_create_Eve.html

The answer to questions 6 & 7 regarding Cain's Wife and Eve's closeness to Adam is found here: http://www.SeekFind.net/Where_Did_Cains_Wife_Come_From.html

The answer to the question 8 about the people in the land of Nod is Here: http://www.SeekFind.net/Where_did_all_the_people_in_the_land_of_Nod_come_from.html

The answer to question 9 is found here: http://www.SeekFind.net/How_did_all_the_2_million_species_get_to_the_ark.html

The answer to question 10 is here: http://www.SeekFind.net/Regarding_the_Ark_where_did_all_the_food_and_water_to_feed_them_come_from_for_the_lengthy_voyage.html

The answer to question 11 is here: http://www.SeekFind.net/What_happened_to_all_the_urine_and_excrement_of_the_animals_on_the_ark_The_ark_must_have_smelled_really_bad.html

The answer to question 12 is here:  http://www.SeekFind.net/When_the_animals_debarked_from_the_ark_how_did_they_get_to_places_like_Australia_South_America_the_South_Pole_Alaska_etc.html

The answer to questions 13 and 14 are here: http://www.SeekFind.net/After_the_flood_since_all_plant_life_had_been_destroyed_and_there_was_also_no_animal_life_what_did_the_herbivores_eat.html

The answer to question 15 is here:  http://www.SeekFind.net/How_could_8_white_people_on_the_ark_somehow_create_races_of_Negro_Indian_Asian_Hispanic_etc.html

See the baloney detector for more information.